Post by Denethor on Mar 27, 2010 23:33:40 GMT -5
OK I threatened to put a thread on this topic on the board. But as folks may have noticed I didn't right away; something (erm, that would be, absolute mortification) held me back. I tried thinking about it first and designing something. No soap, didn't have the guts to post about it. I tried asking the Angels themselves for the courage, they said go ahead, but I still didn't have the guts, being too embarrassed. I tried talking about it with some others in real life, including Lodgemates and - gulp - my Dad (obviously, a lot has been changing in my life in last few weeks/months, but I digress); while my Dad doesn't know about this board, really, being as how he's not much into boards, the fact that I could talk to him about the Most Embarrassing Topic Possible For An Ersatz Atheist should have given me the nads. But no soap. So I tried drink. And here I am.
(That's a paragraph-long apology for the likely number of typos in this post, spellcheck notwithstanding ).
So. Angels. How the fuck did this come about.
I'd typed in a thing describing my Nightmare Experience, but it got way too long. I'll cut that bit out because it really didn't contribute to the (hopeful) discussion. I can tell that story later if it comes up.
As we know, Pagans aren't "supposed" to have any dealings with angels. Those things are Christian, for the luvva Mike. Never mind that they appear not just in Christianity but in all of the Abrahamic traditions, have obvious precursors in or are even outright lifted from the Zoroastrian and Sumerian traditions, and have cognates all over the world. Never mind that many of the Christians themselves will avoid angels, believing that anyone who communes with anything other than Jehovah or Jesus is "really" dealing with demons. Oh, and last but not least, never mind that there's a basic Western Ceremonial Magic ritual that many Pagans, especially those influenced by Lodge traditions or the like, often do on a daily basis that explicitly calls the Beings into your home. (You know, the specific one I have been doing since the mid-eighties). We Pagans or Heathens or what-have-you just aren't supposed to communicate with angels. They aren't "ours". When we do the basic daily ritual I mentioned, to open meditation periods or whatever, we tolerate the angelic influence because it's "part of the ritual".
Balderash.
Oh, especially when you are in the habit of saying "for the luvva Mike" (oh...erm...hi, Mike ) every time you're around someone who might be offended by "for the love of God", or whom you don't know. (I picked that up from my Mom, an atheist). You can't cuss by something all of your life, follow that up by a good twenty-five years of daily invocation, and not have It eventually show up. A classic case of What Was I Thinking.
On the plus side, at least I wasn't cussing by Mephistopheles or something. That would have been difficult to explain.
Also on the plus side, things that I kind of had no choice about, like this traveling, which initially scared the fuck out of me (but which now mostly annoy me because, you know, I have a life I'd like to get back to), seem to have improved me greatly. Things that I would never have done last year, like rent a car and drive all over an unfamiliar state, in all weathers and during the day plus at night, or brave airport security (I hadn't traveled by air since 9/11, and I'd heard horror stories, and half expected to end up in jail due to my choice of non-rightwing-Christian reading material), I can now do due to the Archangel Michael's favorite modus operandi: give the poor sap no choice about it. How Spinozian.
Once I have completed all these travel assignments (and found a new job if necessary) I will be much freer than before; this will be the net effect of the current interference in my life. This is due to the particular individual involved; one thing M will not tolerate is having his people held back by fear. But I didn't come about that effect by my free choice. If I'd been left a choice, I'd be back in my apartment in DC cowering in fear of Realtors and wondering what the hell I was going to do for a living. Not because I would knowingly choose those consequences, but because of the sort of behavior I would have chosen on a day-to-day level.
(Here's where I'm supposed to get all Spinoza and talk about how these "choices" wouldn't have really been free choices at all, but the natural consequence of habits and patterns directed by things I have no conscious control over, like genetics or early conditioning. But that is not news. If it's going to be those things or M in charge, let M do the choosing. He's way wiser than those dumb forces).
Oh, and I've encountered the others involved in that ritual too, and still others that are common in the sorts of rituals I do related to alchemy. These haven't "fucked" with me as much; it was M I needed the most, and these Beings always go by need. There's a sort of "nothing without a purpose" thing going with these "guys" (they don't always bother to gender). That last is kind of a relief. One thing that is refreshing about them is that they don't play all sorts of games with you spiritually to pull your leg, the way some other classes of Being will. No jokes or "lessons in taking life lightly" (oh yeah, that was great when a prankster/trickster Godling hid my friend's asthma inhaler) or other such infuriating behavior. Everything they do or throw at you has a purpose (a mock-up "lesson" doesn't count) and if the purpose isn't obvious at first it becomes so pretty soon. I could deal with that. I'm kind of starting to adopt that life habit myself, since it seems to work out so well.
Now, I know that most people who post on here aren't especially interested in angels. I wasn't myself. Like I said, they aren't viewed as "ours", despite the fact that some of us call on them every day because it's part of some ritual or another. (As this post suggests, if you don't like angels you should perhaps reconsider doing that). Don't worry, I'm not about to convert to Catholicism or something (about Judaism I can still make no such promise). There is, of course, another powerful spiritual tradition that deals with angels far more actually than any form of Christianity: Western Ceremonial Magic. I also assure you I will post no Oath-bound material here (this is where you think, "but of course he had to say that" ).
It is in fact also possible to view the "soft polytheism" that occasionally comes up in our discussions as a "demotion" of Pagan Gods to angels, in service to that Spinoza's God backdrop. I've never particularly seen it that way (but on the other hand, I haven't been much able to maintain "hard" polytheism either, and I've often been skeptical of others' claims to do so). Perhaps that's another reason Pagans and Heathens would have for discounting or even resenting the whole angel concept.
Whatever. It's all just mad speculation. I've gone from one "supernatural" being to hundreds, and all without really believing in a "supernatural" at all - but that's another post.
(That's a paragraph-long apology for the likely number of typos in this post, spellcheck notwithstanding ).
So. Angels. How the fuck did this come about.
I'd typed in a thing describing my Nightmare Experience, but it got way too long. I'll cut that bit out because it really didn't contribute to the (hopeful) discussion. I can tell that story later if it comes up.
As we know, Pagans aren't "supposed" to have any dealings with angels. Those things are Christian, for the luvva Mike. Never mind that they appear not just in Christianity but in all of the Abrahamic traditions, have obvious precursors in or are even outright lifted from the Zoroastrian and Sumerian traditions, and have cognates all over the world. Never mind that many of the Christians themselves will avoid angels, believing that anyone who communes with anything other than Jehovah or Jesus is "really" dealing with demons. Oh, and last but not least, never mind that there's a basic Western Ceremonial Magic ritual that many Pagans, especially those influenced by Lodge traditions or the like, often do on a daily basis that explicitly calls the Beings into your home. (You know, the specific one I have been doing since the mid-eighties). We Pagans or Heathens or what-have-you just aren't supposed to communicate with angels. They aren't "ours". When we do the basic daily ritual I mentioned, to open meditation periods or whatever, we tolerate the angelic influence because it's "part of the ritual".
Balderash.
Oh, especially when you are in the habit of saying "for the luvva Mike" (oh...erm...hi, Mike ) every time you're around someone who might be offended by "for the love of God", or whom you don't know. (I picked that up from my Mom, an atheist). You can't cuss by something all of your life, follow that up by a good twenty-five years of daily invocation, and not have It eventually show up. A classic case of What Was I Thinking.
On the plus side, at least I wasn't cussing by Mephistopheles or something. That would have been difficult to explain.
Also on the plus side, things that I kind of had no choice about, like this traveling, which initially scared the fuck out of me (but which now mostly annoy me because, you know, I have a life I'd like to get back to), seem to have improved me greatly. Things that I would never have done last year, like rent a car and drive all over an unfamiliar state, in all weathers and during the day plus at night, or brave airport security (I hadn't traveled by air since 9/11, and I'd heard horror stories, and half expected to end up in jail due to my choice of non-rightwing-Christian reading material), I can now do due to the Archangel Michael's favorite modus operandi: give the poor sap no choice about it. How Spinozian.
Once I have completed all these travel assignments (and found a new job if necessary) I will be much freer than before; this will be the net effect of the current interference in my life. This is due to the particular individual involved; one thing M will not tolerate is having his people held back by fear. But I didn't come about that effect by my free choice. If I'd been left a choice, I'd be back in my apartment in DC cowering in fear of Realtors and wondering what the hell I was going to do for a living. Not because I would knowingly choose those consequences, but because of the sort of behavior I would have chosen on a day-to-day level.
(Here's where I'm supposed to get all Spinoza and talk about how these "choices" wouldn't have really been free choices at all, but the natural consequence of habits and patterns directed by things I have no conscious control over, like genetics or early conditioning. But that is not news. If it's going to be those things or M in charge, let M do the choosing. He's way wiser than those dumb forces).
Oh, and I've encountered the others involved in that ritual too, and still others that are common in the sorts of rituals I do related to alchemy. These haven't "fucked" with me as much; it was M I needed the most, and these Beings always go by need. There's a sort of "nothing without a purpose" thing going with these "guys" (they don't always bother to gender). That last is kind of a relief. One thing that is refreshing about them is that they don't play all sorts of games with you spiritually to pull your leg, the way some other classes of Being will. No jokes or "lessons in taking life lightly" (oh yeah, that was great when a prankster/trickster Godling hid my friend's asthma inhaler) or other such infuriating behavior. Everything they do or throw at you has a purpose (a mock-up "lesson" doesn't count) and if the purpose isn't obvious at first it becomes so pretty soon. I could deal with that. I'm kind of starting to adopt that life habit myself, since it seems to work out so well.
Now, I know that most people who post on here aren't especially interested in angels. I wasn't myself. Like I said, they aren't viewed as "ours", despite the fact that some of us call on them every day because it's part of some ritual or another. (As this post suggests, if you don't like angels you should perhaps reconsider doing that). Don't worry, I'm not about to convert to Catholicism or something (about Judaism I can still make no such promise). There is, of course, another powerful spiritual tradition that deals with angels far more actually than any form of Christianity: Western Ceremonial Magic. I also assure you I will post no Oath-bound material here (this is where you think, "but of course he had to say that" ).
It is in fact also possible to view the "soft polytheism" that occasionally comes up in our discussions as a "demotion" of Pagan Gods to angels, in service to that Spinoza's God backdrop. I've never particularly seen it that way (but on the other hand, I haven't been much able to maintain "hard" polytheism either, and I've often been skeptical of others' claims to do so). Perhaps that's another reason Pagans and Heathens would have for discounting or even resenting the whole angel concept.
Whatever. It's all just mad speculation. I've gone from one "supernatural" being to hundreds, and all without really believing in a "supernatural" at all - but that's another post.